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Sampling tutorial for V-Ray 3.20

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  • I changed only a few things in your scene, here's a quick list with the reasoning (in bold the change made)
    Linear Workflow is your friend.
    Forget Ambient lighting: use a domelight instead (yes, for white too.). Ambient to black, added a domelight with vraySky map in it.
    Linear Workflow is your friend.
    It's not helping to set the sun above 1.0 multiplier, its intensity is so big that the energy carried by the rays becomes very very difficult to extinguish, especially with 100 bounces (LC) around glossy surfaces (CFR. fireflies). Set the sun mult. back to 1.0
    Linear Workflow is your friend.
    Setting a burn of 0.0 in the color mapping for Rehinard, and then not applying gamma means you've skewed so far away from the radiometrically linear light transport equation that the results are haphazard.
    To compensate for the (not-so)soft clip Rehinard introduces, you end up making the sun brighter, and likley also the surfaces, lights, and so on and so forth (Cue the Override shader applied on the walls at 222 out of 255 white, or with an albedo shy of 90%...).
    Without sub-pixel mapping, and baked color mapping, that WILL lead to fireflies, and although the may LOOK faint in the render, they will not clean no matter the sampling: the energies those specific rays carry are very unnatural.
    To check this, simply set Burn to 1.0, and turn the gamma button on in the VFB: that is what V-Ray is being asked to process, regardless of what you're seeing in the VFB.
    I chose NOT to change your colormapping settings, but i re-exposed the camera to compensate for the brighter environment (you had a 1.0 float as ambient lighting.).
    Linear Workflow is your friend.
    You will have noticed that under your present colormapping conditions, also the camera exposure is non-linear.
    ​Linear Workflow is your friend.
    The non-linearity of the scene setup also forced you to (needlessly) raise the LC subdivs, and try and correct the fireflies with custom irmap settings.
    I reverted to BF/LC with default settings for both methods, while i didn't touch the general GI settings at all.
    While rendering, i noticed vray would spend loads of time in the cutout parts which were pitch black.
    I turned off the camera clipping, and used a vrayclipper object with a black vraylight material applied. I also turned off the shell modifier on $Line137 so to make the cutout solid.
    These cured the issue, V-Ray not spending more than 1 ray per pixel on the black, however there are still some odd artifacts i couldn't cure in the bottom right part, which cost rendertime (see the samplerate RE).
    Last, but not least, you should always make doubly sure your noise octaves aren't leading to variations many times within a pixel.
    Renderman automatically clamps at the Nyquist Limit, we do not, and as in your case, while not the source of the fireflies, it surely made it more difficult for VRay to converge those very densely varying normals coupled with such high-intensity rays.
    Either use an override with a lightmaterial and the noise you're sizing up as map, or use a bumpNormals RE to see if your bumps are making an appreciable difference, with distinct patterns, or if you're changing the normals (many times) per pixel.
    I left them on for the final render, but i can see no difference either way (I debugged the scene with bump off entirely), while a part of the computation time will be there whether you see the effect or not.

    The final result was the attached image, in 5 minutes 12 seconds on my amd fx-8350 (don't laugh! ^^).
    Click image for larger version

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    For the render below, I also reset the settings to both reset the colormapping and to enable the sp3 sampler.
    Ofc, i also had to re-expose the camera (down, by a wee bit.)
    That's the scene i attached, btw, which rendered for 2:31 (i didn't bother matching noise levels, and went for a quick render.).
    Feel free to expose it up, or change its white balance: the contrast will not change, as you're in linear a workflow, now.
    Or as you should know by now, in the hands of a Friend.
    Click image for larger version

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    DEbug_noise_Vlado-Lele01.zip
    Last edited by ^Lele^; 08-12-2015, 07:27 AM.
    Lele
    Trouble Stirrer in RnD @ Chaos
    ----------------------
    emanuele.lecchi@chaos.com

    Disclaimer:
    The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent those of Chaos Group, unless otherwise stated.

    Comment


    • Or, short answer:
      Click image for larger version

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Size:	29.0 KB
ID:	859129

      But then i'd have lost a battle.
      Lele
      Trouble Stirrer in RnD @ Chaos
      ----------------------
      emanuele.lecchi@chaos.com

      Disclaimer:
      The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent those of Chaos Group, unless otherwise stated.

      Comment


      • thanks for having a look,
        I agreed that is was set too low, but the balance bright/dark was fine, so I don't look at that any more.
        But I really don't know if a shutter speed can introduce noise to the render solution, I have some doubt...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ^Lele^ View Post
          Forget Ambient lighting: use a domelight instead (yes, for white too.). Ambient to black, added a domelight with vraySky map in it.
          You are talking about the environment slot, isn't it?

          Originally posted by ^Lele^ View Post
          It's not helping to set the sun above 1.0 multiplier, its intensity is so big that the energy carried by the rays becomes very very difficult to extinguish, especially with 100 bounces (LC) around glossy surfaces (CFR. fireflies). Set the sun mult. back to 1.0
          I was thinking that vray struggle when there is not enough light and not the reverse. Plus the fact that the number of GI bounce can be control and artificially killed but I was wrong.


          Originally posted by ^Lele^ View Post
          Setting a burn of 0.0 in the color mapping for Rehinard, and then not applying gamma means you've skewed so far away from the radiometrically linear light transport equation that the results are haphazard.
          To compensate for the (not-so)soft clip Rehinard introduces, you end up making the sun brighter, and likley also the surfaces, lights, and so on and so forth (Cue the Override shader applied on the walls at 222 out of 255 white, or with an albedo shy of 90%...).
          Without sub-pixel mapping, and baked color mapping, that WILL lead to fireflies, and although the may LOOK faint in the render, they will not clean no matter the sampling: the energies those specific rays carry are very unnatural.
          To check this, simply set Burn to 1.0, and turn the gamma button on in the VFB: that is what V-Ray is being asked to process, regardless of what you're seeing in the VFB.
          Yes I tried to get rid of the burn out caused by the direct sun but seems I now see clearly that I get lost during the process.

          Originally posted by ^Lele^ View Post
          I chose NOT to change your colormapping settings, but i re-exposed the camera to compensate for the brighter environment (you had a 1.0 float as ambient lighting.).
          You will have noticed that under your present colormapping conditions, also the camera exposure is non-linear.
          Can you develop camera exposure is non-linear? I'm simply not getting it.

          Originally posted by ^Lele^ View Post
          The non-linearity of the scene setup also forced you to (needlessly) raise the LC subdivs, and try and correct the fireflies with custom irmap settings.
          I reverted to BF/LC with default settings for both methods, while i didn't touch the general GI settings at all.

          Thanks, you gave me a lot more credit that I deserve. I have just push the setup as high as I could to get a clean image, I'm a designer not CG artist and vray is just a tools (and not a goal) in the middle of all other tools.

          Originally posted by ^Lele^ View Post
          Originally posted by ^Lele^ View Post
          While rendering, i noticed vray would spend loads of time in the cutout parts which were pitch black.
          I turned off the camera clipping, and used a vrayclipper object with a black vraylight material applied. I also turned off the shell modifier on $Line137 so to make the cutout solid.
          These cured the issue, V-Ray not spending more than 1 ray per pixel on the black, however there are still some odd artifacts i couldn't cure in the bottom right part, which cost rendertime (see the samplerate RE).
          I do face some inconsistent lighting trouble with the vray clipper since it was introduced, so I gave up using that. I will reintroduced it.

          Originally posted by ^Lele^ View Post
          Last, but not least, you should always make doubly sure your noise octaves aren't leading to variations many times within a pixel.
          Renderman automatically clamps at the Nyquist Limit, we do not, and as in your case, while not the source of the fireflies, it surely made it more difficult for VRay to converge those very densely varying normals coupled with such high-intensity rays.
          Either use an override with a lightmaterial and the noise you're sizing up as map, or use a bumpNormals RE to see if your bumps are making an appreciable difference, with distinct patterns, or if you're changing the normals (many times) per pixel.
          I left them on for the final render, but i can see no difference either way (I debugged the scene with bump off entirely), while a part of the computation time will be there whether you see the effect or not.
          Not sure to get that "octave" thing. But when render in 8000x4000 for a panorama or for a close up render in the foreground with oblic view with lot of reflection, the bump may make all the difference beetween a paint material vs an enamel material.

          I will tried again with your improvement. Thanks for the support.

          I wished one day it will be just one click to get a perfect render and time in our core field, product design, instead of vray setup.

          Comment


          • SP3 is coming, that's the aim.
            But I still haven't managed to convince Vlado of the need for a locked UI. ^^
            Lele
            Trouble Stirrer in RnD @ Chaos
            ----------------------
            emanuele.lecchi@chaos.com

            Disclaimer:
            The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent those of Chaos Group, unless otherwise stated.

            Comment


            • "locked" meaning where you won't have access to finer tweaking?
              I'm on SP3 and I can already say that the defalut settings aren't perfect for my previews tests, even with a high noise level, so I would still need to have access to the MSR etc

              Stan
              3LP Team

              Comment


              • ahah, locked meaning a-la iRay.
                But i jest, worry not!
                Lele
                Trouble Stirrer in RnD @ Chaos
                ----------------------
                emanuele.lecchi@chaos.com

                Disclaimer:
                The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent those of Chaos Group, unless otherwise stated.

                Comment


                • As a compromise you could add another option for the visible settings options: Default, Advanced, Expert and Lele :P
                  Cheers,
                  Oliver

                  https://www.artstation.com/mokiki

                  Comment

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