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  • New adaptive method and optimisation prepass early results

    Vlado has been hard at work, for the past month or so, on two new features which allow the user to not have to worry about render settings, while insuring the best possible rendertime for a given quality.

    The first is a new method to evaluate when a pixel sample is good enough, or needs more sampling.
    Historically, that was the job of the noise threshold, but that approach had pitfalls:
    First, noise levels could vary wildly between very similar scenes and lighting conditions.
    Second, given noise threshold was expressed as an absolute floating point value, darker areas tended to be sampled less (looking noisy as a consequence) while very bright areas would get oversampled too much (leading to increased rendertimes for no visual difference.)
    Thirdly, often raising MSR didn't actually lower the number of AA rays cast, simply leading to a rendertime "explosion" when MSR was coupled with high AA.

    The new method is based on Pixel Variance or, in other words, as a percentage rather than an absolute value (I will be happy to explain the concept of Variance in more detail, for those which have a statistical need. Fair warning: it's not for everyone, but then, you needn't worry about understanding it, for it to work.).
    Theory mandates that in this case the sampler should spend on average the same amount of time across the screen, rather than concentrating in some areas and foregoing others.
    As a result, this should lead to a consistent noise level across the image, and generally to a more pleasant noise distribution for the same image quality (expressed as resulting noise in the rendered image.).
    Further to this, doubling MSR should lead to half the AA rays cast, potentially rendering a cleaner image in less time than a noisy one (it's not magic, but i'll spare you the math, unless you'll beg for it.).

    The second feature is a Prepass, which analyses the scene before the actual tracing starts and then optimises the amount of secondary rays versus the amount of camera (or AA, or Primary) rays.
    The prepass takes into account three properties of the scene:
    Normals variance, Albedo Variance and Depth (Z) Variance.
    Where variance is high, the prepass is darker, while where variance is low, the prepass is close to, or white.
    The average of the prepass channels is then multiplied by the MSR set by the user (currently, at least), with the result that areas which will need more AA rays (hair, fur, high-frequency textures, grazing angle-reflections, foliage, and so on) will not be burdened by the secondary rays tracing set by MSR, while the simpler areas (broad, even walls, for example) will be cleaned without as many AA rays (remember, those are a few TIMES slower than secondary rays, so they have to be used as sparingly as one possibly can.), because the secondary rays set by the user will not be reduced, and the successive AA rays will not find any need to concentrate on those parts.

    While we're still at work (well, Vlado is with the code, I test, test, test.) trying to find the ideal balance for both features, we think we have enough in hand to show a sneak peek, with some hard numbers to back up the claims (rather than just relying on visual appearance, which may vary between people).

    So, without further ado, here are a few samples (continuing on the next post).

    In order: the old sampler, the new sampler, and the new sampler plus prepass.
    The aim was to have the same-ish rendertime, and then to check the noise levels in the image (images have an alpha channel, do look at that as well!)

    Click image for larger version

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    For this particular scene, in other words, just a switch of sampler produces an image which renders roughly in the same time, but has 30% less noise.
    Adding the prepass further cuts down rendertime by a full minute and a half, while preserving much the same noise level.
    EDIT: As Both I and Vlado mentioned further down the thread, the new sampler isn't NECESSARILY faster than the old, in fact it may well be slower for the same settings.
    What's great about it is the consistency in noise levels across the image and across very different lighting situations, something the old sampler couldn't achieve very well.

    Tomorrow i'll post some more samples which are archviz oriented, where the prepass will have even more of an impact.

    For now, enjoy!
    Last edited by ^Lele^; 29-09-2015, 03:37 AM.
    Lele
    Trouble Stirrer in RnD @ Chaos
    ----------------------
    emanuele.lecchi@chaos.com

    Disclaimer:
    The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent those of Chaos Group, unless otherwise stated.

  • #2
    Ahhhh sh*t... So is this what you were going on about??

    - Jesse

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    • #3
      Sounds really exciting! This could potentially be a big step forward. When is this feature going official? I'm eager to try it out. Is it coming with the new SP? Are users with access to nightlies able to test it?

      Looking forward to the new examples and more news.
      Max 2023.2.2 + Vray 6 Update 2.1 ( 6.20.06 )
      AMD Ryzen 7950X 16-core | 64GB DDR5 RAM 6400 Mbps | MSI GeForce RTX 3090 Suprim X 24GB (rendering) | GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FE 11GB (display) | GPU Driver 546.01 | NVMe SSD Samsung 980 Pro 1TB | Win 10 Pro x64 22H2

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      • #4
        Originally posted by whtnoise View Post
        Ahhhh sh*t... So is this what you were going on about??

        - Jesse
        Wasn't I a good tease?
        Lele
        Trouble Stirrer in RnD @ Chaos
        ----------------------
        emanuele.lecchi@chaos.com

        Disclaimer:
        The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent those of Chaos Group, unless otherwise stated.

        Comment


        • #5
          I will be looking for more testers soon, actually. It is an important thing and I want to collect feedback from more people before the release.

          Best regards,
          Vlado
          I only act like I know everything, Rogers.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Alex_M View Post
            Sounds really exciting! This could potentially be a big step forward. When is this feature going official? I'm eager to try it out. Is it coming with the new SP? Are users with access to nightlies able to test it?

            Looking forward to the new examples and more news.
            It is in the nightlies already, along with the new Hosek sky model.
            The features are however UI-less, and still quite fiddly to use. (Mxs + env. Vars...)

            I'll let Vlado explain how to enable them, if he choses to do so (things change by the day, still...)
            Lele
            Trouble Stirrer in RnD @ Chaos
            ----------------------
            emanuele.lecchi@chaos.com

            Disclaimer:
            The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent those of Chaos Group, unless otherwise stated.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for the info. Is it in the build from 16 Sept? This is the latest one I'm seeing when I log in.
              Max 2023.2.2 + Vray 6 Update 2.1 ( 6.20.06 )
              AMD Ryzen 7950X 16-core | 64GB DDR5 RAM 6400 Mbps | MSI GeForce RTX 3090 Suprim X 24GB (rendering) | GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FE 11GB (display) | GPU Driver 546.01 | NVMe SSD Samsung 980 Pro 1TB | Win 10 Pro x64 22H2

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              • #8
                Looks like it's time to get back on the beta!

                - Jesse

                Comment


                • #9
                  Not gonna lie this sounds like magic and I don't want to have anything to do with the supernatural....

                  Joking aside this is definitely interesting and Lele seems excited which makes this even more something to look forward to. Can't wait for additional examples.
                  Cheers,
                  Oliver

                  https://www.artstation.com/mokiki

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, samples are cooking.
                    The thing is that the previous results get invalidated when the sampler changes (daily, right now, if for the better each time. We all know this Vlado guy's habits... ^^), so before going public we'd like to be able to be dependable...

                    As for me being excited, you bet.
                    Some of the early results, while with the odd issue, were EXCEEDINGLY promising, particularly for the average shot (where for average here i mean with wildly varying screen-space detail!).
                    The overarching goal, in reality, would be "just" to get a better overall noise distribution, but what's emerging is that rendertimes drop, and while your mileage may vary, at the very least you won't get worse rendertimes, and still get a better noise distribution, and a more efficient use of your secondary rays.
                    I don't want to share the BEST results we got as that may be misleading, somewhat, as the sampler was different, and the scene fairly specific (Emily of the wikihuman project, my version), but should they be repeated with the new sampler, well, at that point i'd have no choice but to share the excitement.
                    Lele
                    Trouble Stirrer in RnD @ Chaos
                    ----------------------
                    emanuele.lecchi@chaos.com

                    Disclaimer:
                    The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent those of Chaos Group, unless otherwise stated.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is fantastic, I wonder how it would affect the sampling of bright speculars - will there be no more need for subpixel mapping?
                      Dmitry Vinnik
                      Silhouette Images Inc.
                      ShowReel:
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxSJlvSwAhA
                      https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmitry-v...-identity-name

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                      • #12
                        Really exciting ! Good step towards minimising set up time and maximizing artist work time !
                        Would love to see more tests with complex archviz situations - trees and grass outside , glossy geometric parquet inside and etc etc , also interesting how it will handle GI as well. Really good stuff , thanks for sharing !
                        Available for remote work.
                        My LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olegbudeanu/

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Morbid Angel View Post
                          This is fantastic, I wonder how it would affect the sampling of bright speculars - will there be no more need for subpixel mapping?
                          All my tests are done WITHOUT SPM and WITHOUT may ray intensity enabled.
                          Specs go in the tens, float, and still not the slightest of issue.
                          I'm telling you, Dmitry, you'd hoot. (i hate to build anticipation, and am clearly averse to risk-taking. I'm also fully expecting Vlado to put me behind the blackboard, tomorrow, for this... :P)
                          Last edited by ^Lele^; 28-09-2015, 02:51 PM.
                          Lele
                          Trouble Stirrer in RnD @ Chaos
                          ----------------------
                          emanuele.lecchi@chaos.com

                          Disclaimer:
                          The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent those of Chaos Group, unless otherwise stated.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Oleg_Budeanu View Post
                            Really exciting ! Good step towards minimising set up time and maximizing artist work time !
                            Would love to see more tests with complex archviz situations - trees and grass outside , glossy geometric parquet inside and etc etc , also interesting how it will handle GI as well. Really good stuff , thanks for sharing !
                            We thought of that, and have a few specific scenes to test that.
                            In fact, the prepass helps quite a lot in those cases.
                            Again, sorry to tease. I'm rendering as we speak
                            Lele
                            Trouble Stirrer in RnD @ Chaos
                            ----------------------
                            emanuele.lecchi@chaos.com

                            Disclaimer:
                            The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent those of Chaos Group, unless otherwise stated.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Can't wait! If it's half as good as it sounds it will be a huge improvement

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