Rhino "Save Textures" & file size

[glennco]

Hello,

I'm using Rhino 7 (current release) and Vray 5 (current release), and noticed file sizes are getting massive after applying Vray materials (mostly wood).

I read an old post here about not using "Save textures" when saving the Rhino file.

Can someone please explain what "Save textures" does, if/when it should be used, what affect it has on render performance, etc?

Thank you for your assistance,

Glenn

[glennco]

I unchecked the save textures box, but now Rhino is randomly losing Vray textures. That I have to reapply.

So is my choice between a 13mb file and repeating applying textures or a 50mb file that embeds Vray textures in the Rhino file?

Could someone please give me guidance here?

Thank you,

Glenn
Interesting, the lost Vray materials don't display in Rhino viewport, but they render in Vray.

[Micha]

"Save texture" is an option good for sharing Rhino files with textures to other users on other machines - the textures are packed in the Rhino file and this cause a larger size. If the Rhino file is opened at an other machine than the textures are unpacked in the working directory. If you are working with the Rhino file on your computer only than this function isn't needed. I don't know why you have trouble. Sounds like something for the support team.

[glennco]

Micha Thanks for the reply and explanation. I agree it seems like something is wrong, and hopefully Vray support will see this posting and investigate. I posted over at Rhino forum as well, since I'm not sure if this is a Vray or Rhino or both issue.

Glenn
Rhino 7 SR5 2021-4-10
Vray 5.10.03

[nikoleta.garkova]

Hi glennco

Can you try opening your files with the File > Open option in Rhino and see if textures get lost like that?

Testing on our end, we could only reproduce such an issue if the files were opened by double-clicking on the .3dm file. We've logged this under VRW-3205 so our developers can have a look, but meanwhile you can use the other option as a workaround. We'll let you know when there are any updates on the matter.

Thanks for the pointer!

[glennco]

nikoleta.garkova Thank you for the fast reply & testing on your end.
I always open Rhino files with File>open, and never double click the 3dm file.
Another thought I had over the weekend, could file naming & storage have any impact?
I have 2 drives (both SSD 850 Samsung Pro) C O/S & all apps, D all working files. Organized like this: D Projects>client name>unique project number>all files related to this project
Then an asset sub-folder for items specific to that project D projects>client name>unique project number>assets>
Each Rhino file is named: unique project number <space> description <space> date.3dm
A few times throughout the day, as I make major changes, I obsolete the file with a text note & save as "datea", so "d projects>client>1234>1234 living room 20210424.3dm" then "1234 living room 20210424a.3dm, etc.
Should I start from (and continuing working in) a master file without the date, so I am always working from the same/original file. Then name the (backup) copies with the date?
So start from "d projects>client>1234>1234 living room.3dm" then backup file is "1234 living room 20210424.3dm, etc.
And finally, remember the intermittent GPU freeze I was experiencing during Rhino render? Well, that has gone away with the recent Vray update, as well as W10, Nvidia updates. So I'm thinking could the lost texture files cause the freeze by not knowing what to do when the texture can't be found? Some sort of timeout or Vray gets stuck in a loop looking for the texture?
Thanks again,
Glenn

[glennco]

nikoleta.garkova File size increasing with new Vray version

File last saved on 3/31/21 with then current Rhino 7 & Vray 5, size was 43MB.

On 4/28/21 I opened the above file with Rhino 7 SR5 2021-4-10 7.5.21100.03001 & Vray 5.10.03 April 12 2021, then file>save as (renamed old file to current date), file is now 50MB. I made no changes to materials, or geometry.

Original file and 4/28/21 version both saved with “save textures”.

File contains vray materials wood, car paint, metal, and generic.

Why is file size increasing with this version of Vray?

I even ran Rhino purge on new file, no change in size. I do run Rhino & Vray purge during modeling process to keep file clean.

It seems this has happened in the recent past, but I didn't keep notes.

Thank you,

Glenn

[glennco]

nikoleta.garkova
Hello,

Here is another example Rhino file with surface 10'x10' 61kb.

Saved that file as new name, then Applied Vray wood, file is now 6MB.

Why?

Please provide input into this problem, or tell me who I should contact about this issue of MASSIVE file sizes from Vray materials.

Am I doing something on my end that is causing this?

Thank you,

Glenn Gardiner
P.s. file upload failed, message about can't upload .3dm files.

P.s.s file upload failed on 7zip about file size.

I'll try to send to customer support. I'm getting very frustrated with Chaos and Vray.

[nikoleta.garkova]

glennco Hi,

We’ll be expecting your files and will let you know after we manage to take a look and troubleshoot. We might also schedule a remote session if we are unable to reproduce this. Much appreciated!

[glennco]

nikoleta.garkova
ticket number is: 339-328-4987  
Glenn

[glennco]

nikoleta.garkova
PLEASE HELP
This file size issue has gotten worse with latest release, went from 161kb to 52.6MB just from applying Vray laminate to a 10'x10' flat surface.
I did a clean install of current Vray 5.10.04, core 5.10.03, NEUI 4.1.3, appSDK 3.00.00
Using these steps:
uninstalled Vray (from Windows menu Chaos Group>"uninstall Vray for Rhinoceros"
Reboot
Opened Rhino cleaned out old vray toolbars 01 to 05
Installed Vray
Opened Rhino
Vray as default, set toolbar
Reboot
Opened Rhino
Created a couple 3d solids & an approximate 10'x10' surface
Saved file, 161kb
Applied Vray laminate to surface, control s to save, received warning about "you are attempting to embed 52.6mb of support files…"
What can I do, I have a couple projects due this week that I started with Vray 5.10.04 (latest), I avoided Vray materials wood, concrete, etc. Metals, generic, procedurals, etc seem to be ok.
What will happen if I uninstall & go back 1 version of Vray?
Will anything bad happen to the couple files I have started with 5.10.04?
I received this from customer service:
Dear Customer, With this email, we would like to update you on the status of your service request 339-328-4987  .
After further discussion and performing additional tests, we get to the decision that we will now escalate your case to a higher level of support due to the complexity of the issue. We will keep you updated if an action plan is available or if we require more information from you.
In the meantime, the service request will remain soft-archived until a permanent fix or workaround is available.
PLEASE HELP ME,
Thank you Glenn
Rhino 7 SR6 2021-5-7 (Rhino 7, 7.6.21127.19001, Git hash:master @ aec74c050f3ca28ab3cfd6882e9453a52366a9b7)
License type: Commercial, build 2021-05-07
License details: Cloud Zoo
Windows 10.0.19043 SR0.0 or greater (Physical RAM: 32Gb)
Computer platform: DESKTOP
Standard graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 (NVidia) Memory: 8GB, Driver date: 5-13-2021 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 466.47
> Accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display attached to adapter port #0
OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Anti-alias mode: 4x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 5-13-2021
Driver Version: 27.21.14.6647
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 8 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Chaos Group\V-Ray\V-Ray for Rhinoceros\V7\VRayForRhino.rhp "V-Ray for Rhino"
Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp "Commands" 7.6.21127.19001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp "Renderer Development Kit"
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp "Rhino Render" 7.6.21127.19001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp "RDK_EtoUI" 7.6.21127.19001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk_ui.rhp "Renderer Development Kit UI"
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp "Snapshots"
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp "RhinoCycles" 7.6.21127.19001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp "Toolbars" 7.6.21127.19001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp "3Dconnexion 3D Mouse"
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp "Displacement"
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Calc.rhp "Calc"

[glennco]

nikoleta.garkova
Summary questions for above lengthy posting.

what can I do to fix this: rollback, etc?

And what will happen with files that I started with Vray 5.10.04 if I rollback to last release?

Is this a Vray material library issue?

Does that library get removed during uninstall or need to be manually deleted?

Why didn't the clean install correct this issue?

Is this happening to other users, consistently, or sporadically?

Or is this only happening to me?

I have a lot of work, I'm doing 10-12 hours a day 7 days a week. Last week was 12-15 hours a day 7 days. So I don't have time to trouble shoot this.

I pay for Vray, I expect a working product.

Please help,

Glenn

[glennco]

nikoleta.garkova
Another follow up.

The Vray materials .tx, files are huge 16-50mb for wood etc. See screen grab. Is that part of problem?

Did I download a high resolution library when low(er) resolution would be fine for my work?

Thanks,

Glenn

[slavcho.brusev]

Hello glennco

Please go to Rhino options > View > Display Modes > Shaded and change the Color and material usage to Rendering material. Then you should be able to see textures in the Rhino viewport.

Note that some materials may still not be visible in the viewport. This is because Rhino’s viewport does not support procedural textures. In that case you can use the Binding option and set your own texture for the viewport representation.

You do not need to use the “save textures” option here. If you would like to transfer projects between different machines use the Pack Project option instead.
https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/VRHINO/V-Ray+Menu

[glennco]

slavcho.brusev
thank you for the reply.
I am already using that setting, and I understand procedurals won't display in Rhino.

The problem with textures not displaying is related to the size issue mentioned above & ticket 339-328-4987  

I'm getting a warning message for applying Vray materials, wood, concrete, etc to simple small surfaces.

Files go from 1mb to 50mb with Vray wood.

that is the issue.

Glenn